Chapter 523: Debate (III)
Zhang Yuelu’s bold monologue caused a great furore in the originally silent Yuxu Palace.
If not for Zhang Yuelu’s distinguished status and her master Sage Cihang sitting high above, the Confucian disciples would have already begun denouncing her as seeking attention or even harboring treacherous intentions. They might have even accused her of damaging the relationship between the Daoist Order and the Confucian School—potentially putting her in grave danger.
Even the four Omniscient Sages exchanged glances, unable to deny that Zhang Yuelu was indeed a unique individual who made a splash wherever she went.
Additionally, Zhang Yuelu’s explanation was far too detailed. According to standard debate protocol, while responses need not be overly concise, they should also not be excessively verbose—brevity was still preferred.
Several Great Masters of the Confucian School nearly erupted in protest but ultimately restrained themselves.
Of course, since Zhang Yuelu’s statements were directed solely at the Confucian School and had nothing to do with the Buddhist Sect, the Buddhist representatives remained as spectators, watching the drama unfold with amusement.
Qin Lingge now sat with perfect posture, his previous sense of ease completely gone. He had come to regard Zhang Yuelu as a formidable lifelong rival.
He had to admit that her reputation was well-earned. Moreover, Zhang Yuelu was the least renowned of the top three Daoist prodigies. If Li Changge and Yao Pei had been present, what kind of overwhelming skill would they have displayed?
Qin Lingge slowly responded, “If a father has a son who dares to dispute his actions, he will not be considered unrighteous. When faced with injustice, a son must challenge his father, just as a minister must challenge his sovereign. If a son blindly obeys his father’s command, could that be considered true filial piety?”
It came from the Confucian Classic of Filial Piety, which detailed that filial piety did not always mean obedience. One should obey when morally right and resist otherwise. Blindly following orders without considering righteousness and thereby allowing one’s father or sovereign to commit injustice would be the true failure of filial piety.This was undoubtedly Qin Lingge’s rebuttal or counter-explanation concerning loyalty and filial piety.
Though Zhang Yuelu claimed that a son could not resist his father, the Confucian School had already provided a solution. The Confucian teachings did not solely emphasize loyalty and filial piety while neglecting justice.
Zhang Yuelu rebutted. “But what if speaking out achieves nothing? What if the father refuses to listen?”
Qin Lingge fell silent.
Zhang Yuelu struck at the core of the argument. “The grandson must simply endure it. He is still forbidden from taking up arms in resistance, isn’t that right?
“Direct armed rebellion against one’s parents is unfilial, and allowing one’s parents to commit injustice is also unfilial. If in the end, the father is proven wrong, yet the children fail to effectively protest and have no choice but to watch as their father and grandfather commit injustice, then the children are still deemed unfilial. Ultimately, the blame still falls upon the children.
“The Confucian School grants the right to speak, but the right to be heard still rests with the father and grandfather. If so, what meaning does such a right hold?"
Zhang Yuelu wielded her words like a sharp spear. Sage Cihang had warned her to beware of the Confucian School attacking the Daoist Order, so Zhang Yuelu chose to initiate the offense instead, directly targeting the flaws within the Confucian School.
“In essence, the relationship between the sovereign and minister, or between sovereign and the people, is not that of father and son. There is no blood relation and no nurture.
“It is the common folk who support the sovereign, not the sovereign who feeds the commoner. The people are the benefactors of the sovereign, not the other way around. Since there is no true father-son relationship, what role do loyalty and filial piety play in the equation? Why should the people not rebel against the sovereign? Why is it deemed illegitimate when the people overthrow their ruler?
“For this reason, when the Daoist Order waged war against injustice in the past, it did not oppose loyalty, filial piety, benevolence, and righteousness. Instead, it opposed the forced hierarchical structure of the sovereign as a father and subject as a son. The ruling class likened themselves to the fathers and grandfathers of the world and used filial piety as a means of moral coercion to subjugate the people. In truth, they acted no differently from great thieves.”
Qin Lingge’s expression had turned grave. He spoke each word with gravitas. “The Second Sage once said that the common folk are of utmost importance, the state comes second, and the sovereign is the least important.”
It must be acknowledged that the Second Sage’s concept of righteousness and valuing the people above the ruler significantly compensated for Confucianism’s inherent shortcomings. This was precisely why the Second Sage was second only to the Confucian Sage in the hierarchy of the Confucian School.
Zhang Yuelu continued, “No matter how much weight you place on the people, they remain commoners, just as a sovereign will remain the ruler of a nation no matter how one tries to understate the sovereign’s importance. The hierarchical structure of the sovereign and minister remains unchanged.
“In the past, when Donghuang debated with a Confucian Grand Libationer, he asked, ‘Why are some people always the fathers and grandfathers, while the rest are forever the sons and grandsons, generation after generation?’ The answer has already been given in the annals of history—are kings, generals, and ministers born to their positions?
“Yet, when revolutionaries overthrow their so-called fathers and grandfathers, they soon realize that Confucianism remains the best tool for governing the world. They must still rely on the Confucian School and its scholarly officials to secure their newly won rule. Thus, dynastic change is nothing more than a change in leadership—the fundamental sovereign-minister relationship remains that of father and son.
“Confucianism does not care about right or wrong—only about maintaining order through propriety. When two children fight, both receive equal punishment. When conflict arises between father and son, the son is always at fault—that is the Confucian propriety.
“Under the Confucian hierarchical system, each social class governs itself and does not interfere with others, thereby preserving peace. Thus, the true essence of propriety is hierarchy and class structure.
“However, Confucian governance has a major flaw—it can maintain stability but cannot support expansion. Why did the previous Wei Dynasty enforce a maritime blockade? If the nation is a family, can the fathers and grandfathers still exert control over distant sons and grandsons scattered across the seas? If those descendants found new opportunities elsewhere, would they still recognize their ancestral roots?
“This creates a monumental problem. The population grows while land diminishes. How is this sustainable? The patriarchs fear losing control over their descendants, so they refuse to expand outward and instead promote frugality. But when the younger generations have already been pushed to the brink of deprivation while their elders continue indulging in extravagance, who is willing to sacrifice further?
“Thus, the fall of dynasties is inevitable. Each change descends the world into chaos; the blood of the people forms rivers, and corpses pile high like mountains. Once the old regime is overthrown, land will be redistributed, and the population will be reduced, renewing the vicious cycle.
“What of the Six Dynasties? They amounted to nothing more than private struggles between aristocratic families. The new ruling dynasty still had to rely on the Confucian School for the governance of the masses. This ensured that the Confucian School would endure through the ages. It is precisely because of the successive dynasties' heavy reliance on them that Confucians have become arrogant.
“Confucians see the world as a fixed-size pie that can only sustain so many people, with any excess leading to inevitable bloodshed. But not everyone was willing to accept this endless cycle of slaughter. Some sought a way out, hence the beginning of the Confucian School’s decline.
“The Daoist Order then proposed a new idea—why not make the pie bigger? After thousands of years of seeking within and producing no results but this same tragic cycle of bloodshed, seeking outward became the only option. Therefore, the Daoist Order turned toward innovation, revitalized maritime trade, and expanded beyond its borders. Today, Daoist ships sail across the seas, and commerce spans the entire world. This outward expansion is why the Daoist Order thrives.”
The Confucian Great Master nearly slammed the table in anger, but Sage Donghua stopped him. “Since this is a philosophical debate, we must allow discourse. These are merely individual opinions and should not be generalized as the stance of our respective institutions.”
Within the Daoist Order, there had always been two schools of thought—one advocating the complete elimination of Confucian influence and the other promoting the integration of the Three Religions.
Zhang Yuelu’s arguments aligned with the former. It was not something she had conjured up on her own.
To Confucian disciples, her words were sharp and grating. But to Daoists, they were not particularly extreme; many even found them quite reasonable.
While the Daoist Order and the Confucian School maintained a good relationship, interpersonal ties could not be used to measure the relationship between the two behemoths, and these grand institutions could not be personified.
It was not a contradiction for the Daoist Order to be allied with the Confucian School and critique it.
If Qi Xuansu had been present, he likely would not have launched into such an elaborate argument as Zhang Yuelu did. Instead, he would have pointed out the Confucian School’s core issue in a single sentence—Confucian gentlemen and sages simply constructed an artificial moral high ground and applied their own standards selectively.
To put it bluntly, it was double standards. That was why so many people criticized the Confucian School, saying it preached benevolence and morality while concealing hypocrisy and corruption, with every so-called gentleman being nothing more than a sanctimonious fraud.
Sweat formed on Qin Lingge’s forehead. He had never expected Zhang Yuelu’s figurative spear to be so sharp—having almost skewered him completely within just two exchanges. He was already showing signs of defeat.
He forced himself to settle down and responded, “As you claim, many of Confucianism’s practices have deviated from the original intentions of the Confucian Sage and the Second Sage. In truth, it was the emperors of successive dynasties who wielded Confucianism as a tool of imperial power. Confucianism is but a blade. If someone kills with a blade, should the blame fall upon the blade itself?”
As someone who bore both a royal bloodline and a Confucian affiliation, it was no small feat for Qin Lingge to utter such words.
Zhang Yuelu suddenly raised her voice. “Those who wield the blade are certainly guilty, which is why they all met their downfall. But do not forget one thing, Young Master Qin. When one wields a sharp blade, the desire to kill naturally arises. Without the blade, where would the murderous intent come from?
“Moreover, Confucianism itself is not just any ordinary blade but a demonic one—one that harbors its own will and influences the thoughts of its wielder. The wielder is less a master and more so a mere puppet of the blade. Is it justice if we only blame the wielder but do not destroy the demonic blade itself?
“This is why the Holy Xuan has declared for the reformation of Confucianism. We must discard the dregs and retain only its essence.”
Qin Lingge closed his eyes and fell silent. It was not that he had no arguments left, but the results of the debate between Confucianism and Daoism had already been decided. Reality spoke louder than words, and at this point, further disputing the matter would be meaningless.
This was akin to giving a stone to the opponent in a game of Go—admitting defeat.
Ning Lingge spoke again. “Qing Xiao, please deliver the final insight.”
This was the final step in the debate competition. One person established the theme, and the other concluded with a summation. The rule dictated that the closing reference should originate from the same source as the opening citation, serving as a summarization and elevation of the discussion.
Since Qin Lingge had referenced the Primordial Daoist Ancestor’s Five Thousand Words Classic, Zhang Yuelu’s closing statement would also have to be drawn from the same text.
Finally, Zhang Yuelu rose to her feet, bowed to those around her, and recited, “Do not exalt the worthy, so the people will not compete. Do not value rare treasures, so the people will not steal. Do not display what is desirable, so the people’s hearts will not be disturbed. Therefore, the Sage’s way of governing begins by emptying the mind, filling the belly, weakening ambitions, and strengthening the bones of the people. The Sage ensures that the people remain without knowledge and without desires, so that even the clever dare not act. Order prevails through inaction.”
This passage came from the third chapter of the Primordial Daoist Ancestor’s Five Thousand Words Classic. It adhered to the rules of the debate and served as the Primordial Daoist Ancestor’s perspective on the distinction between Daoism and Confucianism. Whether it was right or wrong remained a matter of personal interpretation.
Ning Lingge refrained from extensively commenting on the content of the debate. He simply stated, “A single perspective may determine victory or defeat in debate, but it does not necessarily dictate absolute right or wrong. The benevolent see benevolence, and the wise see wisdom. May all disciples take from this what is most valuable and apply it well. This concludes today’s debate.”
The gathered audience rose in agreement, their gazes turning to the debate’s victor—Zhang Yuelu.
Zhang Yuelu had secured victory for the Daoist Order in this debate, so she would have the honor of being recorded in the long annals of Daoist history.
However, whether future generations would celebrate her name depended on how far she could go on the ever-changing course of the Daoist Order and the Confucian School.